The Results of "God Loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life"

Opening the floodgate for all my doubts

Posted Saturday, June 14, 2008. — 17 comments
By Mark F., a former Christian minister

After 27 years as a Christian, I had to deal with cold, hard reality. Christianity was not working for me. I was at a point in my life where things should be great. I have a nice house on 2 ½ acres, wife and four great kids. We have a decent income, not rich, but still pretty prosperous. So why was I having thoughts about how to kill myself in such a way it wasn't an obvious suicide? I began to look at my marriage and knew there were some issues there, but not to bring me to this point of hopelessness. So what was it?

In the end I realized it was the hollowness of my fundamentalist faith that had left me so empty. Was it my lack of commitment or earnestness that was the problem? I don't think so. I spent five years in preparation to become a full-time minister, earning a BA degree in pastoral studies and a minor in biblical languages. Then, nine years in full-time ministry, including being ordained with the Assemblies of God. I've traveled all over the world in the name of my faith and put my life at risk. I've tried with all my heart to live up to the demands and expectations of the fundamentalist Christian faith. I examined my beliefs against other world religions and believed them to be superior. Yet it wasn't good enough.

Let me go back to the beginning. I was born into a typical middle class family, older brother and sister, suburbs, pets, etc. We were pretty faithful Catholics at that time; we even attended a Catholic school. Everything looked good, but my dad was an alcoholic -- not the falling down drunk kind, more drinking to deal with the stress of life. He was seeking help and one day after he and my mom fought. He was driving to visit our priest when he was caught in a snowstorm. His car broke down, and he started walking, but he succumbed to the cold about one mile from the priest's house (try to figure that one out theologically). The car was stolen soon after that, so we did not find out until Spring that he wasn't coming back. I was seven years old at the time. A bit after that my mom remarried a man who really put our family through hell. We were in a decent position financially, but he basically ate up all of the life insurance, Social Security benefits, etc., and was still looking for more. He was abusive and lazy and caused much pain and anguish in a family that was already struggling.

That sets the stage for a 13-year-old boy hearing about a god who loves him and has a plan for his life -- a "heavenly father." It all sounded so wonderful. It took a little while, but I finally prayed the prayer and asked Jesus to come into my life. There was a sense of relief and purpose and hope. Shortly after that I got very involved in a youth group in the Assemblies of God, went on missions trips, and felt the "call to ministry."

I could go into much detail and stories of my experiences in the Assemblies of God. I'm not here to bash them, but did spend most of my adult life in that fellowship. I left full-time ministry after nine years of service as an associate/youth pastor. That was one of the turning points in my life. My last two ministry positions had left me questioning my call to ministry, and when the last position ended abruptly due to a conflict with the head pastor, I just had nothing left. I called out to God, but received no answer. I would have even accepted the slightest emotional movement or desire to be in ministry again. Instead I felt like a man on a deserted island. The few good ministry friends I had faded away pretty quickly.

From there I started trying to figure out what to do with my life. We attended church less faithfully then in the past (we had always been the Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night+ type of people), and found a church where we could stay in the background. I figured it was just the loss of my "career" that was troubling me. Yet there were many nagging doubts I had pushed to the back of my mind. Was this baptism in the Holy Spirit stuff real? How about miracles? I'd never really seen anything even close to real in my time in the church. How about the inerrancy of the Scriptures? There were so many flaws and questions. I'd seen so many things that made me seriously question if this was real. Could people "filled with the power of the Holy Spirit" really be this cruel? I could go on and on. But I pushed down the doubts and pressed on in my faith.

Eventually, we moved to my wife's hometown and began attending her home church, where our kids also went to the Christian school. Life should really start to come together now, right? Wrong. I was still struggling with depression and finding a point to it all. Then a couple of fairly insignificant events pushed me over the edge. We were trying to sell two rental properties in Minnesota during this terrible housing market. We prayed and had many others praying for God's help. We had sunk tens of thousands of dollars on our credit into fixing them up, and they just wouldn't sell. I finally came to the point of saying, "OK God, if you aren't going to show up and help, I'll just take you out of the equation and do what has to be done." I stopped looking to Him and hoping He'd show up and work His magic. I started making the decisions I needed to make. I felt a sense of relief at that point, but wasn't all that conscious of my "inner" decision.

Then a second event happened at church in an area of ministry I was involved. First, the person who had brought me in to the ministry and was the main reason I was involved was basically asked to leave. Church "politics" type stuff really. Then a couple of months later they said my position was essentially being eliminated and going to be staffed by someone working for the church. Honestly, it wasn't that big of a deal, but I think did turn out to be the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back." I wasn't really mad at anyone in particular, I just thought, "Another great example of God's mighty army in action." Alienating and walking on people are a way of life in the church.

I think that is what opened the floodgate for all my doubts. I had seen Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" and was intrigued. Then I came across a book by Charles Templeton (the "Billy Graham" of Canada who left the faith) called "Farewell to God." These book titles were simply unbelievable to me. Then I opened up Templeton's book and started reading. I couldn't put it down. I started looking through parts of Dawkins book and found myself amazed. It's like I had been in a cave all my adult life, and was finally coming out and seeing a part of the world that I had never seen before.

My "deconversion" came to a head when I sent an email to John Loftus of "Debunking Christianity.blogspot.com". It was an act of desperation at 2 a.m. in the morning. [see http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/05/assemblies-of-god-pastor-questions-his.html]. I had been browsing his site for days and found so many great articles and so much information I couldn't stop reading. I was really frightened and unsure of what I was doing at that point. John emailed me back and pointed me to some good resources to help me. I bought his book also and began reading it. I started combing through the testimonies and materials online and found so often people were echoing my own fears and doubts. It was like having everything you've staked your life on come crashing down before you.

Yet at the same time, once I really made the decision, there was a huge sense of relief. I didn't have to keep doing mental gymnastics to try to justify all of the crazy things about the bible and church. I didn't have to keep living what had become a lie. At that point, I had lost "buy-in". I would go to church, look around, and think, "are you kidding me"? This is crazy! I would hear things that I used to agree with, and now they sounded as foolish as the ideas of Santa Claus. My mind began to open and I felt a happiness I hadn't experienced in quite a long time. I was excited about life. To explore all that is out there. To not be restricted by an archaic book. To not feel constant guilt for my thoughts or not doing all I could to save a world bound for an eternity in hell. Honestly, the sky was bluer, the grass was greener. I felt a love for my kids I hadn't felt in quite some time. I felt much less judgmental of others. I just felt like a new man.

I am still VERY early in this deconversion process. I consider myself to have "reset" to where I am in "seeker" mode. Obviously, my experience with Christianity to date is going to be hard to overcome. I am a very pragmatic person, and if something doesn't work, I just can't see forcing it. Yet I am still open and looking at all possibilities. I'll be honest, I still want to believe in some type of higher power/ creator. Yet it does not bother me if he is not personal or not actively engaged in the world anymore. It was a nice thought to think of a loving-creator-father god, but I can see now it was just silly, childish, wishful thinking.

I now look at so much of the Christian story that sounded good on the surface, but when you get into the details much of it just does not make sense. As they say, "The devil is in the details", and if there is a devil he is certainly in the details of the Christian story! I am truly excited for the future, even though I have no idea what it holds. I wish I had someone to discuss all of these ideas and thoughts going through my head, but my wife really can't handle it, and there is no one else at this point to turn to. For that reason this site has been a HUGE encouragement to me in this journey. I am also learning to look to myself and trust my own intuition. I hope this very brief story will help encourage someone else and give them the courage to stand on their convictions and follow their heart.

Man's mind is like a store of idolatry and superstition; so much so that if a man believes his own mind it is certain that he will forsake God and forge some idol in his own brain--John Calvin

aren't the two most surest promises in the bible, eternal life and trials and tribulations ?

simply seth wrote:

aren't the two most surest promises in the bible, eternal life and trials and tribulations ?

Absolutely. However, that is never mentioned alongside the wonderful plan for your life.

Yo, Mike, that quote of Calvin is great... I remember when I used to say my brain was my god...

But, yeap, like you said, no one really mentions the trials and tribulations we must go thru... and no one is really willing to go thru hard times, where God is really refining us.... by the way, tomorrow I will be preaching about this very subject, the title of the sermon is: Tribulation is GOOD.... I'll start another thread giving the outline of the sermon...

God bless you

--Chema

yup. or even they do mention the trials and tribulations and eternal life... they take it back to, but it's okay... God still has a wonderful plan in your life and God will love you forever and ever. sigh

Problem #1.

Where is the Repentance before a Holy and Righteous Judge?

Problem #2.

We all have troubled lives, why is his so special that it takes the place of, oh let's say a real testimony?

Problem #3.

without Faith he is just a phony created by other phonies, so why does he think he had the true faith when he had to have read the Bible to become a minister/leader....and would have come across other things that would have challenged his presuppositions?

Problem #4.

He lets others determine his mental and spiritual state of being.... not a fully completed man in that capacity, but still a boy.... a Biblical Man is not unaffected by his surroundings rather, he reacts according to a higher standard.....

There are other problems with this "testimony of de-conversion" but those are the main ones, and I can't stomach re-reading it again.....

man that's sad. my heart goes out to folks like this.

That's why my favorite scripture is James 1: 2-3. Not only should we expect trials and tribulations, we should be counting it all joy!!!!

Ok, so here's the questions I wanted to ask with this.

How would we witness to this person? What would be your approach? What would be the main thing you stress to this guy?

Let's act as if I am the guy who wrote this. Witness to me.

Alright...Go!!! lol

Expositor wrote:

Ok, so here's the questions I wanted to ask with this.

How would we witness to this person? What would be your approach? What would be the main thing you stress to this guy?

Let's act as if I am the guy who wrote this. Witness to me.

Alright...Go!!! lol

... soo describe your conversion experience

was there any repentance for sin ?

do you consider yourself a good person ?

simply seth wrote:

Expositor wrote:

Ok, so here's the questions I wanted to ask with this.

How would we witness to this person? What would be your approach? What would be the main thing you stress to this guy?

Let's act as if I am the guy who wrote this. Witness to me.

Alright...Go!!! lol

... soo describe your conversion experience

was there any repentance for sin ?

do you consider yourself a good person ?

Well, I pretty much stated it in my article. I grew up Catholic and my dad struggled with alcoholism. He died on his way to see the priest at the church. Then, my mom married this horrible man.

So when I heard that God could be my Father, I was excited. I wanted to believe that there was such a thing as a good father. But, now looking back on it, I think it was just wishful thinking.

If you mean by repentance that I confessed my shortcomings, I'll say that I definitely repented.

Am I a good person? I think so. I have a wife, family, nice house, etc. I treat others the way I would like to be treated. I'm well-respected in my neighborhood.

have you ever murdered someone ?

Jesus says if you even show unjust hatred toward someone you are guilty of murder.

I've hated someone before. But, he beat my mother nightly. I don't think that's unjust.

So, witness to me, man!!!! lol

I'm sorry you were duped to believe that this whole christianity thing was about a better life.

This whole christianity thing is about you and I breaking God's laws.

For every lie , for every time you looked at someone you weren't married to with sexual desire (what Jesus calls adultery), for everytime you have taken something irregardless of value that was not yours, for every time you have disrespected your parents;

you have accumulated a huge sin debt.


whether you convince yourself that God doesn't exist or not, the truth is that there will be a day of accounting.

simply seth wrote:

I'm sorry you were duped to believe that this whole christianity thing was about a better life.

This whole christianity thing is about you and I breaking God's laws.

For every lie , for every time you looked at someone you weren't married to with sexual desire (what Jesus calls adultery), for everytime you have taken something irregardless of value that was not yours, for every time you have disrespected your parents;

you have accumulated a huge sin debt.


whether you convince yourself that God doesn't exist or not, the truth is that there will be a day of accounting.

But, I thought that God was all about love...

Okay, so we broke God's laws. Every single person in the world does that. Why is that such a big deal that it would require a "day of accounting" as you call it?

Everyone lies. Everyone lusts. Why are my "sins" amounting to such a huge debt as you say?

Yes God is love , but He is also justice and He will punish law breakers.

Yes all have broken God's laws and just as if you broke a civil law, you have to give an account.
Even more so with God ...

for example if you step on a bug .. nobody even bats an eye
if you run a homeless dood and kill him, you might get away with it or do minimal time
if you even whisper about doin' something to the president you can get put in federal prison real quick

what's the difference ?
Its who you have committed the transgression against.

If even whispering of doing something against the president will get you in the federal pen, imagine you transgressing against an inifintely holy, eternal God , who is way higher than any ruler on earth, who not only sees your actions, but the dark thoughts of your heart.

That is why there must be a day of accounting for the sin debt you have accumlated, and that's why the punishment must be eternal.

simply seth wrote:

Yes God is love , but He is also justice and He will punish law breakers.

Yes all have broken God's laws and just as if you broke a civil law, you have to give an account.
Even more so with God ...

for example if you step on a bug .. nobody even bats an eye
if you run a homeless dood and kill him, you might get away with it or do minimal time
if you even whisper about doin' something to the president you can get put in federal prison real quick

what's the difference ?
Its who you have committed the transgression against.

If even whispering of doing something against the president will get you in the federal pen, imagine you transgressing against an inifintely holy, eternal God , who is way higher than any ruler on earth, who not only sees your actions, but the dark thoughts of your heart.

That is why there must be a day of accounting for the sin debt you have accumlated, and that's why the punishment must be eternal.

*tag*

so.... what are you going to do???...

it seems like also Friend that you've broken God's second law as well..

You have made a god that is more comfortable to your lifestyle and beliefs-

- because the God of the bible

The true and living God... HATES your sin!!!! and no justification or reasoning will appease Him on the day of Judgment. Do you realize you are worthy of hell?

What will happen when YOU stand before Him?