Higher learning and Christianity

It's a proven fact; the higher the level of education, the more liberal it gets. We all know that Christian institutions exist, and, to a degree, they counter this cultural stigma. I just wonder...why is it that so many people who reach upper levels of education (doctorates, masters, etc.) tend to be either agnostic, or more frequently, atheists. Why is it that one must reject the idea of a transcendent being in order to be considered intelligent? The most intelligent man in the world, if not the second most intelligent man in the world (by the world's standards), is none other than Richard Dawkins, an emphatic and passionate atheist who wrote the critically acclaimed "God Delusion". There are more atheists in the varying fields of science than there are theists, much less Christians. Why is this? Is Alister McGrath our only representative? Your thoughts...



**I wouldn't exactly count in Dr. Francis Collins. Evolution and Christianity don't mix.

The simple and most accurate answer is sin. Paul realized that the catalyst of hubris is increased knowledge, warned the saints @ Corinth that knowledge has the concommitant effect of puffing one up[I Corinthians 8:1]. Its almost as if with possession of new information, the receipient of it has somehow transitioned into a type of Utopian or rather Edenic environment and partaken of a forbidden produce. Thus as a result of partaking, they have been corrupted by the notion that they are now like God (which is the Satanic endorsement linked to this corruption).

That being said, I believe we still have a whole host of intellectuals in the Body of Christ who have not bowed their knees to the Baal-like idol of knowledge which leads to this sort of thing (causing one to depart from the Lord).

The problem of sin also us to the realization that these carnal minded cats are already in a state, condition, and realm of active hatred towards God [Romans 8:6-8]. So their increase in knowledge and their atheistic bent is the outgrowth of orbit of their present Adamic existence.

They are in bondage.

Grace & Peace

Redeemed

"My 1st post"

Great topic. Great posts. Derek, you really hit the nail on the head.

Another point could be the educational system itself. People are brainwashed along the road to "intellectualism". I took a few college courses once for GRAPHIC ARTS... just graphic arts... and STILL in my art history class, there was a blatant and up front teaching that directly contradicted Christian doctrine and even religions on a whole! The basis was a long the lines of "we started in caves, started drawing, men wanted power, created a "religion" with a higher being and consequences for breaking the rules, and thus religion was born to oppress and control society". I had a hard time first with why i was getting a history lesson in an art class, and secondly.. the smug attitude of the teacher while he taught this... almost mocking and daring any religious members of the class of ANY sort to object.

One word......PRIDE

Redeemed wrote:

The simple and most accurate answer is sin. Paul realized that the catalyst of hubris is increased knowledge, warned the saints @ Corinth that knowledge has the concommitant effect of puffing one up[I Corinthians 8:1]. Its almost as if with possession of new information, the receipient of it has somehow transitioned into a type of Utopian or rather Edenic environment and partaken of a forbidden produce. Thus as a result of partaking, they have been corrupted by the notion that they are now like God (which is the Satanic endorsement linked to this corruption).

That being said, I believe we still have a whole host of intellectuals in the Body of Christ who have not bowed their knees to the Baal-like idol of knowledge which leads to this sort of thing (causing one to depart from the Lord).

The problem of sin also us to the realization that these carnal minded cats are already in a state, condition, and realm of active hatred towards God [Romans 8:6-8]. So their increase in knowledge and their atheistic bent is the outgrowth of orbit of their present Adamic existence.

They are in bondage.

Grace & Peace

Redeemed

"My 1st post"

WOW. Nicely said, yet you leave me with more questions. You seem to be toying with the notion that it's wrong to seek such a level of intelligence. Do you believe it to be something ungodly to seek that knowledge?

My personal belief is that it is not only totally acceptable, but can give God glory in a great way. The key is humbling yourself before an ALL-KNOWING God, understanding that no matter how great your knowledge is, it will NEVER be greater or equal to His. It can also serve to prove that Christians don't need to be uneducated to believe, and that God can reveal His truth to people of all intellectual capacities, and they can embrace it without qualms. That's just me.

kritikul wrote:

Redeemed wrote:

The simple and most accurate answer is sin. Paul realized that the catalyst of hubris is increased knowledge, warned the saints @ Corinth that knowledge has the concommitant effect of puffing one up[I Corinthians 8:1]. Its almost as if with possession of new information, the receipient of it has somehow transitioned into a type of Utopian or rather Edenic environment and partaken of a forbidden produce. Thus as a result of partaking, they have been corrupted by the notion that they are now like God (which is the Satanic endorsement linked to this corruption).

That being said, I believe we still have a whole host of intellectuals in the Body of Christ who have not bowed their knees to the Baal-like idol of knowledge which leads to this sort of thing (causing one to depart from the Lord).

The problem of sin also us to the realization that these carnal minded cats are already in a state, condition, and realm of active hatred towards God [Romans 8:6-8]. So their increase in knowledge and their atheistic bent is the outgrowth of orbit of their present Adamic existence.

They are in bondage.

Grace & Peace

Redeemed

"My 1st post"

WOW. Nicely said, yet you leave me with more questions. You seem to be toying with the notion that it's wrong to seek such a level of intelligence. Do you believe it to be something ungodly to seek that knowledge?

My personal belief is that it is not only totally acceptable, but can give God glory in a great way. The key is humbling yourself before an ALL-KNOWING God, understanding that no matter how great your knowledge is, it will NEVER be greater or equal to His. It can also serve to prove that Christians don't need to be uneducated to believe, and that God can reveal His truth to people of all intellectual capacities, and they can embrace it without qualms. That's just me.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I intimated higher learning is bad...still if you gleaned from what I said, I did not express myself clearly. The issue I wanted to raise is the inward inclination to sin as we are mystically joined to Adam. Even after enjoying a salvific union with Christ we still have the presence of sin that dogs us and seeks to influence us. Increased knowledge, like increased material things is catalytic to stirring up temptation.

I merely raise that statement to say that there is an increased need to look to Christ & cultivate humility because of the reality of sin and how it manifests itself in pride.

Redeemed wrote:

kritikul wrote:

Redeemed wrote:

The simple and most accurate answer is sin. Paul realized that the catalyst of hubris is increased knowledge, warned the saints @ Corinth that knowledge has the concommitant effect of puffing one up[I Corinthians 8:1]. Its almost as if with possession of new information, the receipient of it has somehow transitioned into a type of Utopian or rather Edenic environment and partaken of a forbidden produce. Thus as a result of partaking, they have been corrupted by the notion that they are now like God (which is the Satanic endorsement linked to this corruption).

That being said, I believe we still have a whole host of intellectuals in the Body of Christ who have not bowed their knees to the Baal-like idol of knowledge which leads to this sort of thing (causing one to depart from the Lord).

The problem of sin also us to the realization that these carnal minded cats are already in a state, condition, and realm of active hatred towards God [Romans 8:6-8]. So their increase in knowledge and their atheistic bent is the outgrowth of orbit of their present Adamic existence.

They are in bondage.

Grace & Peace

Redeemed

"My 1st post"

WOW. Nicely said, yet you leave me with more questions. You seem to be toying with the notion that it's wrong to seek such a level of intelligence. Do you believe it to be something ungodly to seek that knowledge?

My personal belief is that it is not only totally acceptable, but can give God glory in a great way. The key is humbling yourself before an ALL-KNOWING God, understanding that no matter how great your knowledge is, it will NEVER be greater or equal to His. It can also serve to prove that Christians don't need to be uneducated to believe, and that God can reveal His truth to people of all intellectual capacities, and they can embrace it without qualms. That's just me.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I intimated higher learning is bad...still if you gleaned from what I said, I did not express myself clearly. The issue I wanted to raise is the inward inclination to sin as we are mystically joined to Adam. Even after enjoying a salvific union with Christ we still have the presence of sin that dogs us and seeks to influence us. Increased knowledge, like increased material things is catalytic to stirring up temptation.

I merely raise that statement to say that there is an increased need to look to Christ & cultivate humility because of the reality of sin and how it manifests itself in pride.

I see what you mean. The tone of your post just lead me that way, so I responded as I did. I agree with you 100%.


*Side note*

For those of you who are familiar with the novel I referred to earlier, "The God Delusion", our own Alister McGrath has written a response to it which he entitled "The Dawkins Delusion". I'm reading it right now, and I have to say that I love the manner in which he communicates, very eloquent.

kritikul wrote:

It's a proven fact; the higher the level of education, the more liberal it gets. We all know that Christian institutions exist, and, to a degree, they counter this cultural stigma. I just wonder...why is it that so many people who reach upper levels of education (doctorates, masters, etc.) tend to be either agnostic, or more frequently, atheists. Why is it that one must reject the idea of a transcendent being in order to be considered intelligent? The most intelligent man in the world, if not the second most intelligent man in the world (by the world's standards), is none other than Richard Dawkins, an emphatic and passionate atheist who wrote the critically acclaimed "God Delusion". There are more atheists in the varying fields of science than there are theists, much less Christians. Why is this? Is Alister McGrath our only representative? Your thoughts...



**I wouldn't exactly count in Dr. Francis Collins. Evolution and Christianity don't mix.

It's important to create a dichotomy between the wisdom of God and wisdom of Men. Notice, in 1Cor 2, Paul expounds on the foolishness of the gospel. It's message, content, and proclamation are in direct opposition to the world's understanding, knowledge, and wisdom. As a result, the world places the wisdom of God as foolishness. In fact, Paul even goes as far as to say the foolishness of God is still wiser than the wisdom of men (as if any foolishness existed). Paul, goes futher, and states that God uses the foolishness of gospel to proclaim his message. Men's wisdom is the antithesis toward our God's wisdom. So no man can boast and all glory will be given to God.


God uses foolish, weak, and sometimes very uneducated people to save his people. For example, John Bunyan was an uneducated man and was sovereignly used by our God mightily. Or, he used Paul who was trained under Gamleio and excelled past any of the Pharacie's. Paul's learning in the Roman-empire was very esteemed, he was a very well educated man. But, even he himself claims that he is "foolish", a terrible "public speaker". Remember, Paul lived in Greco-Roman empire where intellectualism was highly valued. And he counted it all rubish.